"Breaking Bad" Writers' Assistant Gordon Smith Interview

The keeper of the secrets on "Breaking Bad" is now free to speak.  Gordon Smith started as a production assistant three years ago and was soon promoted to the executive assistant of show creator Vince Gilligan and writers’ assistant.  If you've watched the DVD extras, you've seen him in the writers' room; he's the bearded dude with the laptop.

After the series finale, we discussed the show's creative process, its themes and Walter White's legacy.  We met over a cup of tea without Stevia.  

Michael Carvaines:  Prior to joining the show did you watch it, and what was your initial impression? 

Gordon Smith:  I don't have cable, but I watched the first season on DVD.  I loved it.  I was hooked after the third episode when Walt kills Krazy-8.  That may be my favorite episode.  That just seems to me the point where Walt makes his first cold-blooded decision.  Walt constantly has to make the decision to stay in or get out, and everything is pointing to him to get out.  But he still stays in.  From that point on I was hooked.

MC:  So you joined the team and started researching crystal meth?

GS:  Pretty much.  I’ve done a lot of random research on how to make meth.  During Season 3 when we had to build the super meth lab, I researched designs and schematics for what they look like.  I pulled a bunch of photographs from online and gave them to the writers.  Thankfully, we had support from the DEA and our production design team.  We rely on our consultants for their expertise, like Dr. Donna Nelson who helped with a lot of technical chemistry.  We reached out to poison experts, law enforcement, lots of people.  I once had to research if it's legal to burn money.  We also had a pitch that came up about the IRS, and my mom happens to be a tax attorney with experience with the IRS, so she helped out.  She was happy to help.

MC:  What were some of the show's inspirations and references?

GS:  The writers were very inspired by "The Godfather," "The French Connection," "White Heat," and of course westerns.  "The Searchers," "Once Upon A Time in the West," all of Sergio Leone.  We saw the show as a modern western, and the location in Albuquerque was crucial.  In terms of structure, we were influenced by "Casino" and "Goodfellas" and the "Godfather" movies—those great crime dramas were fantastic inspiration.  Visually, early on, the kind of loose handheld look of "The French Connection” was a touchstone.  As the show went on, that look evolved.  As Walt changes, you can see that the filmmaking style changes: the shaky, hand-held style of the early seasons gives way to a more classic style:  more dollies, locked-off shots, more steadicam, more push-ins.  Directors would pitch shots to Vince, such as a dolly-in, and usually these shots suggested themselves from the script.  And they were appropriate to the part of the journey the story was in.  If the shot fit the mood, we did it.  In the end, Vince is a very visual filmmaker, and had specific ideas, so he knew whether each director's suggestion would fit or not.  For example, Scott Winant pitched the shot of Walt at the end of episode 4.11 where he’s under the house and the camera rises up off his laughing face.  Vince liked the idea, and the crew went over and above to make it happen—the grips had to juryrig a setup that approximated a technocrane, which we couldn’t afford.

MC:  "Breaking Bad" had a very timeless feel.  The show could have taken place anytime in the past 20 years, or even a pre-apocalyptic future.  How do you write that?

GS:  We were careful to keep the story focused on Walt and his chronology.  We focused on the pure drama and the structure, which makes it more of a classic tragedy.  We kept politics out of things, which I think helped keep it timeless.  Current events can make things very dated, which I think helped keep it a more universal story.   Much of it came from the production side: our production design team would keep calendars and documents with dates on them to a minimum.  We used music that came from all eras.  Sometimes, things snuck in: a couple new cars, things like that.  And sometimes our post team caught things that had to be painted out.  It was a very conscious, very purposeful decision.  It always seems to be springtime in Albuquerque: not too hot, not too cold.  But we shot a lot during winter and had to keep the snow, ice, actors’ breath, all that cold-weather stuff out.

 

SPOILER ALERT:  We discuss the series finale below.

MC:  The show touches on several great American themes:  greed, second chances, secret lives, legacies.  For me, this was most represented by Walt's barrel of money.  Which theme resonated most for you?

GS:  To me the theme was "Do you want what you think you want?"  Walt thinks he wants money.  In the beginning he sets a goal.  By the end of the series he's blown past that.  Some people take the show to have some kind of political message, but I feel like there’s more of a moral lesson.  If you're setting out money to be the end-all be-all, that may not be the way to success or happiness.  The journey Walt has ends with that mixing drum in the meth lab, his greatest bond is with that horrible thing - a chemical vat, this thing that’s how he sent poison into the world.  That's the one thing with which he had the truest bond.  And that’s the horror, here. I think the show has a moral center and a judgement about that which comes from Vince’s deep sense of morality.

MC:  How long did you know about the ending?

GS:  Not long.  It wasn't planned from the beginning.  There were some vague notions.  We started the discussion by asking 'Is Walt going to die?'  But we didn't take that for granted.  We had to talk through it.  We asked:  is there a world where he ends up in witness protection?  Is there a world where he ends up in prison?  We ran through those options.  We kept coming back to the idea that Walt probably had to die.  But again, that was not something that was set.

MC:  When were you having these conversations?

GS:  At the beginning of the last season.  And all along as it approached.  We kept checking in.  Is this where we want to go?  We had that discussion every three episodes, at least.  We built this show brick by brick.  Every step along the line, we asked if we're on solid ground.  Can we keep going?  Do we need to change something?  Once we knew we were ending, once we knew this was it, we starting asking about the specifics.  We had to figure out: when is Hank going to die?  What's that confrontation going to be?  What happens to Walt's family?  Is Walt going to leave?  Is Jesse going to prison?  One pitch idea that kept coming back involved Walt breaking into prison to get Skyler, or Walt breaking into prison to get Jesse out.  Maybe there was a universe in which those would've worked, but it didn't feel like they would be satisfying, or right for the character or journey that we wanted to see. 

MC:  Now that it's all over, what do we as writers and filmmakers take away from "Breaking Bad?"

GS:  I don't know, what do you take away?

MC:  I've always been a big proponent of classic structure and classic themes.  This reinforces it and proves the importance of sticking to something when you do it right. 

GS:  What I take away is different from what the public would take away, probably.  These people have been my family, you know?  As far as people working in film and TV, there are a lot of lessons for the business, in terms of audience building and sticking to your vision.  The show hit at the right time, sure, but for a while all we had was critic support and the belief in us from AMC and Sony.  They supported the show even when the audience wasn’t there.  In another era it might have died.  But the studio and the network stuck it out, and then Netflix streaming came along and allowed people to catch up quickly and easily and it all worked at the right time.  I mean, it didn’t just have to do with changing business models.  Other shows that came out at exactly the same time didn't have the same success: I think you have to have strong material, and really believe in it.  Ultimately, the show worked because we trusted what we were doing.  We trusted in the material.